Who is the Great Crowd?

• 
  

  
  "for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.” Revelation 5:9-10
   

  "a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands." Revelation 7:9
  The people "out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation", is the great crowd!
  

Jehovah's Witnesses base their teachings on the Bible?

"Logically, to enjoy God’s backing, one must teach only what God reveals in his Word and reject teachings based on human wisdom or tradition." - The Watchtower, June 1, 2001, pp. 12-17

Compare:
"All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the "greatly diversified wisdom of God" can become known only through Jehovah's channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave." - The Watchtower, Oct. 1, 1994; p. 8
 

"to rely simply on personal Bible reading and interpretation is to become like a solitary tree in a parched land."- The Watchtower, June 1, 1985, pp. 19-20

"They say that it is sufficient to read the Bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home. But, strangely, through such 'Bible reading,' they have reverted right back to the apostate doctrines that commentaries by Christendom's clergy were teaching 100 years ago..." - The Watchtower, Aug. 15, 1981, pp 28-29

Why is there a resurrection? Why not leave them in heaven since Christianity teaches that paradise is in heaven?

There are plenty of Christian denominations that understand/teach about the earthly resurrection and new earth, it is in Luther's Small catechism, for example, and when I asked a baptist about it she explained that they belief that people return to the earth after the rapture.

• I am sure there are Christians that don't understand this.... There are churches that allow membership without any classes, and people generally have to ask if they want to know more than the basics... in addition, when people say heaven they generally just mean with the Lord, so even when the new heavens and the new earth are here we will still be in heaven... AND earth.
   
• 
  

  
  

  The following is quoted from a Baptist site:
  "The scriptures clearly show there is ONE BODY, ONE HOPE, and ONE FAITH for ALL true born-again Believers in Christ.Ephesians 4:4-6 There is one body (not two bodies, one earthly and one heavenly) , and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope (not two hopes, one earthly and one heavenly) of your calling; In the Eternal State (Rev 21) there will be an earthly, spiritual kingdom where God will be all in all.
  
  
  Part (2) If you were to die today, where would you spend eternity?
  Most born-again Christians would give the same answer---heaven.
  If saints are returning during the millennium to reign with Christ, how could that be correct?
  1Thess 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
  
  Part (3) Where will those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life spend eternity?
  First, they will be in heaven where Jesus is now.
  Matt 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
  Second, they will return with Him at Armageddon.
  Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
  Third, they will dwell with Him forever in His new earth.
  Matt 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
  Rev 21:1-2 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."
• 
  

  
  

  
  

  This is from a Lutheran site: "You ask what the new heavens and earth will be like. I am not sure how to answer aside from emphasizing that it will be the eternal home of believers and thus a parallel term with "heaven," where God and his people will enjoy eternity together. To try to speak in great detail is inevitably going to be somewhat speculative and unnecessary. As Martin Luther once said, for us to engage each other with detailed descriptions of our eternal home would be like twin fetuses telling each other about how it will be in the world after their birth. They haven't experienced it yet and are wise to limit their speculations.
  The late Professor Siegbert Becker wrote these fitting words: "The most detailed description of this new heaven and new earth we find in the last two chapters of the Bible, where we have also a detailed description of the place where God's people will live through all eternity. John first tells us that he had a vision of a new heaven and a new earth. . . . What more can we say to add anything to that picture of endless bliss and glory? We can only join in the prayer of St. Bernard, 'Jesus, in mercy bring us to that dear land of rest.' "

Disassociation Letter

Dear Jehovah’s Witnesses, 

You may be wondering why you haven’t seen us recently. We have been working through some things and thought we would let you know what they are. We know how important it is to “make sure of all things” and “always make a defense for the faith that is in you”. 

1. Who is my mediator?  Who is your mediator? 

"Likewise, the Greater Moses, Jesus Christ, is not the Mediator between Jehovah God and all mankind. He is … to only 144,000 members" Worldwide Security under the Prince of Peace, p10 “There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus.” 1 Timothy 2:5 “Christ is a mediator of a new covenant.”Hebrews 9:15

Moses was the mediator of the Law covenant between Jehovah God and the nation of Israel. –Insight on the Scriptures under Mediator  God’s prophet and channel of communication to the nation of Israel was Moses…  Later, the anointed faithful followers of Jesus Christ were to serve as a “faithful and discreet slave” in communicating to Jehovah’s people how to apply Bible principles in their lives. Watchtower 1993 2/1 p. 15

Moses helped the nation of Israel to keep the covenant and to receive its benefits…–Insight on the Scriptures under Mediator The “great crowd” of “other sheep” that is forming today come under benefits that flow from that new covenant … by associating with the “little flock” of those yet in that covenant. Watchtower 1979 4/1 “No one comes to the Father except through me.” —John 14:6

We have decided to accept Christ as our one and only mediator, as the scriptures state. Can you reconcile this with the doctrines of Jehovah’s Witnesses?

2. Believing or Exercising?

Another discrepancy: “It is for the reward of eternal life that every last person on earth should now be working… [Jehovah’s Witnesses] are working hard now for the reward of                        eternal life… making themselves eligible to receive the reward of eternal life.”  WT, Aug. 15, 1972

When people work, their wages are not a gift, but something they have earned. But people are counted as righteous, not because of their work, but because of their faith in God who forgives sinners. Romans 4:4,5

It is clear that Paul wrote to the Galatians, people who had already accepted Christ’s sacrifice, in order to correct them of their erroneous view of adding works as a requirement for righteousness. “You are parted from Christ, whoever you are that try to be declared righteous by means of law; you have fallen away from his undeserved kindness. How foolish can you be? After starting your Christian lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort? For the Scriptures say, “It is through faith that a righteous person has life.” This way of faith is very different from the way of law, which says, “It is through obeying that a person has life.” For such freedom Christ set us free. Therefore stand fast, and do not let yourselves be confined again in a yoke of slavery.” Galatians 3:3,12; 5:4;1 

Upon using the Kingdom Interlinear translation I found that at John 3:16,18,36 and similar Scriptures, the Greek word is “believing”. The word “exercising” has been added in the New World Translation.

3. The Anointed and the Other Sheep Class

 

Romans 8:8… “So those who are in harmony with the flesh cannot please God. However, you are in harmony, not with the flesh, but with the spirit, if God’s spirit truly dwells in you. But if anyone does not have Christ’s spirit, this one does not belong to him. You received a spirit of adoption as sons, by which spirit we cry out: “Abba, Father!” The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God’s children. Everyone who practices righteousness has been born from him. See what sort of love the Father has given us, so that we should be called children of God; and such we are. Everyone believing that Jesus is the Christ has been born from God, Romans 8:8,9,16; 1 John 2:29; 3:1; 5:1 A Watchtower recently admonished us to walk in spirit as in Romans 8:1-8. Look at scriptures in context!

The Watchtower says: "Only a limited number are born again. The great crowd does not need to be born again. Their life is earthly, not heavenly." - Watchtower 4/1/1988, p. 4

But wait, the Kingdom of God is not just in heaven!!!

"Manifestly, God’s kingdom comes to earth and his will is then done on earth "-- Watchtower 1/1/1959 p.25-29

Look at the parable of the wheat and the weeds. When the wheat are left over: “At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.” Matthew 13:43 Only righteous children of God are allowed in the Kingdom, whether in heaven or on earth.  There is no other sheep class in Romans 8, Matthew 13, or 1 John 3 only two classes of people are mentioned and if they are not Children of God, being led by Holy Spirit and guaranteed a reward then they are not part of God's people at all. I think that apostate doctrines are dooming the Great Crowd of Jehovah’s Witnesses to the fate of no mediator, no Heavenly Father, and no hope. “The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it.” Psalm 37:29 “Everyone who practices righteousness has been born from him.” 1 John 2:29


I also see that if one is a Child of God, then one is part of the kingdom covenant as well. Romans 8:17; There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female; for YOU are all one [person] in union with Christ Jesus. Moreover, if YOU belong to Christ, YOU are really Abraham’s seed, heirs with reference to a promise. Galatians 3:28,29

4. Is Michael the Archangel Jesus, the only begotten Son of God?

I think that the identity of Jesus Christ is the most important doctrine one must get right. If you do not believe that I am you will die in your sins. John 8:24 Everyone that denies the Son does not have the Father either. 1 John 2:23     I  am    ἐγώ εἰμι,  John 8:24  Kingdom  Interlinear.    

Who is Jesus Christ? The Apostle John has this to say about Jesus Christ: he was also calling God his own Father, making himself equal to God. Look at the context with the quotes. This was John speaking, not the Pharisees, but John saying this at John 5:18. John also has this to say: He that confesses the Son has the Father also. Whoever has the Son has eternal life  Jesus Himself said: in order that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He that does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.. 1 John 2:23; 5:11,12; John 5:23

‘Michael the great prince’ is none other than Jesus Christ himself.— Watchtower 12/15/84 I cannot agree, after reading Hebrews chapter 1 and 2 that Jesus is Michael the Archangel. To which one of the angels did he ever say: “You are my son; I, today, I have become your father”? But with reference to which one of the angels has he ever said: “Sit at my right hand, until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet”? Michael the Archangel? For it is not to angels that he has subjected the inhabited earth to come, about which we are speaking. But we behold Jesus, who has been made a little lower than angels, crowned with glory and honor.
 
Insight on the Sciptures, Under Michael: “Scriptural evidence indicates that the name Michael applied to God’s Son before he left heaven to become Jesus Christ and also after his return.” To which name should every knee bow? Michael? No, it is to God’s name. Is it not I, Jehovah, besides whom there is no other God; a righteous God and a Savior, there being none excepting me? By my own self I have sworn—out of my own mouth in righteousness the word has gone forth, so that it will not return—that to me every knee will bend down, every tongue will swear. It is to Jesus. so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord Isaiah 45:21-23 Phil 2:10, 11

“I, Jehovah, am doing everything, stretching out the heavens by myself, laying out the earth. Who was with me?” Isaiah 44:24 But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, “In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands.” Hebrews 1:8-10

“You are my witnesses,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “even my servant whom I have chosen, in order that you may know and have faith in me, and that you may understand that I am the same One. Before me there was no God formed, and after me there continued to be none. I—I am Jehovah, and besides me there is no Savior.” Isaiah 43:10,11 In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. John 1:1 Hmmm…


“This is what Jehovah has said, the King of Israel and the Repurchaser of him, Jehovah of armies, ‘I am the first and I am the last, and besides me there is no God. And who is there like me? Isaiah 44:6 “‘Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to render to each one as his work is. I am the Al´pha and the O·me´ga, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. Happy are those who wash their robes, that they may gain entrance into the city by its gates. Outside are the idolaters and everyone liking and carrying on a lie. I, Jesus, sent my angel to bear witness to you” Revelation 22:12-16

5. Destroys families and deceives 

In contrast to “No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family.” of Awake! July 2009 p.29, “Does the study of the Bible lead to family breakup? No.” We have examples in the Watchtower of parents deciding to obey the organization instead of allowing their natural feelings for their children:  But they love their son so much! Strong emotions might cause them to reason: ‘How can we help our boy return to Jehovah if we severely limit our association with him? Would we not accomplish more by maintaining regular contact with him?’ But what will those dear parents do? Will they obey Jehovah’s clear direction? Or will they rationalize that they can have regular association with their disfellowshipped son? July 15 2011 However, because he did not receive even the slightest communication from any of his family, the burning desire to be with them became one motivating factor in his restoring his relationship with Jehovah. Think of that if you are ever tempted to violate God’s command not to associate with your disfellowshipped relatives. April 2012 Page 12, paragraph 17

No where in the Bible do I see these commands. Once again I remember to obey God: “For men will be having no natural affection, and from these turn away. 2 Tim 3

6. False Christs:

 

I have decided to listen to the Bible and to Jesus, rather than to men, to the writers of the Jehovah’s Witness literature. “But sanctify the Christ as Lord in your hearts.”--1 Peter 3:15 His name should therefore be sanctified, or set apart as holy. -- Watchtower 1991 9/15 p. 7

…the title “Christ” means “Anointed One” --Watchtower 1969 1/1 p. 29 "First, though, these anointed Christians needed cleansing. As Malachi 3:1-5 had foretold, Jehovah God and his 'messenger of the covenant,' Jesus Christ, came to inspect the spiritual temple in the spring of 1918." Watchtower 1993 5/1 p. 15

Religious history is also full of charismatic leaders who inspired people to be devoted to them but who brought disaster upon their followers. “Be careful that no one misleads you,” warned Jesus, “for many men will come in my name saying ‘I am the Christ’, and they will mislead many.” (Matthew 24:4, 5, Phillips)—Watchtower 1998 2/15 p. 23

At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you ahead of time. Matthew 24:23-25

"The book You May Survive Armageddon into God’s New World, released last June, and the article “Jehovah Is in His Holy Temple,” published in the November 15 English issue of The Watchtower, prove that Jehovah came accompanied by his Angel of the covenant, Jesus Christ, to the spiritual temple in the spring of 1918."--Watchtower 12/15/55 p. 748

How could we listen to this instead of Jesus Christ? “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. Matthew 24:26,27

God, who long ago spoke on many occasions and in many ways to our forefathers by means of the prophets, has at the end of these days spoken to us by means of a Son, For if the word spoken through angels proved to be firm, and every transgression and disobedient act received a retribution in harmony with justice; how shall we escape if we have neglected a salvation of such greatness in that it began to be spoken through [our] Lord. Hebrews 2:1-3For one is your teacher. Neither be called ‘leaders,’ for your Leader is one, the Christ. Matthew 23:8-10 And as for you, the anointing that you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to be teaching you; but, as the anointing from him is teaching you about all things, and is true and is no lie, and just as it has taught you, remain in him. 1 John 2:27

If you are reading this, we want you to know that we love you. It is our sincere hope that Christ may dwell in your hearts and you will know the breadth and length and depth of His love. We will be bowing our knees before the Father asking for His intervention in your lives. Ephesians 3:14-21; Matthew 5:43-44

We will no longer associate ourselves with an apostate cult.

If we die and go to heaven, why do we need a resurrection? After all, would it not be better for us to all stay in heaven? And what are we going to be doing all day?

Good question. Jesus says, "Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life" -John 6:54. And He makes it clear that this includes Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. (Matthew 22:32) "I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven." --Matthew 8:11 "By faith Abraham... But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one." --Hebrews 11:8-16

2 Corinthians 5:8 "Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord."

Acts 7:59 "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!" -Stephen

Christians' desire is to be with the Lord, because we love Him so and desire Him more than anything. "Whom have I in heaven but you? I desire you more than anything on earth. I am my beloved’s and my beloved is mine. He is mine forever." Psalm 73:25; Song of Solomon 6:3; Psalm 73:26

"Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, walk as enemies of the cross of Christ... with minds set on earthly things." Colossians 3:2; Philippians 3:18-21

As we see Stephen says above, the Christian's Spirit goes to heaven. But this is not our final destination. For if we finish John 6:54 Jesus goes on to say of the Christian who HAS eternal life, "and I will raise him up at the last day." We see what happens on that last day in Revelation: "After these things I heard what was as a loud voice of a great crowd in heaven. And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. I saw also the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. and thus we shall always be with [the] Lord." Revelation 19:1; 21:2-3; 1 Thessalonians 4:17

How can I pray to Jesus?

"All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.... That all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father." Matthew 28:18; John 5:23

Who was Paul praying to at 2 Corinthians 12:8-9?

Who was Paul praying to at 2 Corinthians 12:8-9? 

In this behalf I three times entreated the Lord that it might depart from me; and yet he really said to me: “My undeserved kindness is sufficient for you; for [my] power is being made perfect in weakness.” 

Paul answers this question: Who was the Lord he was praying to?

"Most gladly, therefore, will I rather boast as respects my weaknesses, that the power of the Christ may like a tent remain over me."

Rather than correcting Paul, Jesus answered his prayer.

What Does Being Born Again Mean?

Jesus says: "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."-- John 3:3

The Watchtower says: "Only a limited number are born again. The great crowd does not need to be born again. Their life is earthly, not heavenly." - Watchtower 4/1/1988, p. 4

But wait, the Kingdom of God is not just in heaven!!!

"Manifestly, God’s kingdom comes to earth and his will is then done on earth "-- Watchtower 1/1/1959 p.25-29

Remember this scripture? 

The righteous themselves will possess the earth, And they will reside forever upon it.-- Psalm 37:29

How do you qualify as a righteous one?

"everyone righteous is born of Him.-- 1 John 2:29

"The great crowd does not need to be born again." - Watchtower 4/1/1988, p. 4

"Association with Jehovah's Witnesses requires accepting the teachings of the Bible, including scriptural beliefs that are unique to Jehovah's Witness." - Watchtower 4/1/1986, p. 31

Jehovah's Witness teachings keep people from receiving God's Spirit. 

Jehovah's Witness teachings keep people out of God's Kingdom!

 

So those who are in harmony with the flesh cannot please God. However, you are in harmony, not with the flesh, but with the spirit, if God’s spirit truly dwells in you. But if anyone does not have Christ’s spirit, this one does not belong to him. But if Christ is in you, the body indeed is dead on account of sin, but the spirit is life on account of righteousness. He that raised up Christ Jesus from the dead will also make your mortal bodies alive through his spirit that resides in you. For all who are led by God’s spirit, these are God’s sons. The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God’s children.-- Romans 8:8-11,14,16

 

Jehovah's Witnesses: Who is your mediator?

If you ask a Jehovah's Witness this they will say that Jesus is their mediator. They end their prayers with something like "in Jesus' name". They say this because if Jesus did not die a sacrificial death we would have no chance of praying to the Father God. But in fact, they have replaced Him as mediator. You can prove this to them using questions and quotes from their publications. Here is a section of my disassociation letter. When I realized that the Watchtower was taking the place of Mediator and Greater Moses I asked the Lord to save me. I hope this helps you in your attempt to plant seeds with JWs that you come in contact with.

"Likewise, the Greater Moses, Jesus Christ, is not the Mediator between Jehovah God and all mankind. He is … to only 144,000 members" Worldwide Security under the Prince of Peace, p10 

Then who is my mediator?  Who is your mediator?  

“There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus.” - 1 Timothy 2:5 “Christ is a mediator of a new covenant.” - Hebrews 9:15



Moses was the mediator of the Law covenant between Jehovah God and the nation of Israel. –Insight on the Scriptures under Mediator   

God’s prophet and channel of communication to the nation of Israel was Moses…  Later, the anointed faithful followers of Jesus Christ were to serve as a “faithful and discreet slave” in communicating to Jehovah’s people how to apply Bible principles in their lives. Watchtower 1993 2/1 p. 15

Moses helped the nation of Israel to keep the covenant and to receive its benefits…–Insight on the Scriptures under Mediator The “great crowd” of “other sheep” that is forming today come under benefits that flow from that new covenant … by associating with the “little flock” of those yet in that covenant. Watchtower 1979 4/1 “No one comes to the Father except through me.” —John 14:6



We have decided to accept Christ as our one and only mediator, as the scriptures state. Can you reconcile this with the doctrines of Jehovah’s Witnesses?

"The anointed and their other sheep companions recognize that by following the lead of the modern-day Governing Body, they are in fact following their Leader, Christ." (Watchtower, Sep. 15, 2010)